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Here's the continuation of Joseph W Bean's interview with legendary S/M filmmaker Roger Earl, this installment pulled from the Dec '97-Jan '98 issue of International Leatherman magazine. Earl and his collaborative partner Terry LeGrand were behind many of the most influential classic gay S/M films and videos, including Born to Raise Hell (discussed at length in the first installment) and their later Marathon Films releases, including the Dungeons of Europe and Bound for Europe series.

We hope you enjoy this wrap-up of the reprint! (Click here to read Part 1 first.)

Joseph W. Bean: When you went to Europe, were you still shooting on film or were you using videotape?

Roger Earl: I was on tape at that time. But I like shooting with two cameras because I can get through with people a lot quicker and save their energy. You lose the energy when you drag a scene out for three or four hours. When you are using two cameras, it's so easy to just get all of the action, and you don't have to drag them out and keep it on and on.

JWB: In Europe, one camera was Palm Drive Video's Jack Fritscher. Who's the other?

RE: Mark Henry was the other one. Together, Jack and Mark did a great job. I was very pleased with it. On the first three European films, the Dungeons of Europe series. I used one cameraman, a kid from San Francisco. He was someone I met through a woman who did gay porno films. Rumpelstiltskin [editor's correction: R. Stilskin] was her screen name on all these porno films. He turned out to be a dynamite cameraman. He was really a performer; she used him as a model, but he was a cameraman for me.

JWB: When you went to Europe to do that first series, did you know you were shooting for three films from the start or were you just... shooting?

RE: I was shooting everything I could. Then, when I got home, l divided it up into three different films. I was just shooting scenes. I did the same with the other, later ones. I just shot scenes and edited them together.

JWB: So it was two shooting trips, and the first three videos came out of one?

RE: Yes, then we came home and Dungeons of Europe - which includes Pictures From the Black Dance, Like Moths to a Flame, and Men With No Name - was a success. Then, when I was in London on television business, I called Terry [LeGrand, Earl's partner in Marathon] and said, "You should really come over here. There are dynamite people here, it can be a great place to shoot." And he said, ''I'll do it. I'll come over. I'll bring money and a camera. And we'll have to pick up the other people for the crew there." I was sure we could do that, so I told the television star I was working with that I'd really like to stay over for a while. He said that would be fine, and he'd make sure the hotel took care of me. What could I say but, "Great, thank you." Terry did arrive with the camera, but no money. "Well," I thought, "we'll figure out something with Terry. Tomorrow is another day, and something will happen. You know... it will be a miracle." Well, the only miracle was that I called the man I was working for when he got home and said, ''I'm desperate. I need some money. I need about twenty grand." And he said, "The theater owes me that much. Just go over to the theater and pick it up. Tell them I said it's okay. You can have it." I went to the theater, they got on the phone with him, and the next thing... I had twenty thousand dollars in my hand. It was all in pounds, but it was twenty thousand dollars. So I was very grateful to the star I worked with, and promised I'd give it back to him within a year. Terry said all the money that came in would be mine to pay the loan back. But I had to take out a bank loan to pay back the loan I'd taken. I am a man of my word, and he got his money back in a year. Then I also had the bank loan to pay off... It was all interesting. Anyway, I can't talk about Europe without talking about mentioning Christian Dreeson, who was really my Val Martin of the European Films.

JWB: How did you find him?

RE: In Europe, they have this funny little SM magazine...

JWB: Mr. SM?

RE: Yes, it was Toy or Mr. SM, but I can't tell you which one it was. Anyway, there was an ad in the magazine for him, with his beautiful ass... showing just this beautiful ass in the ad.

JWB: He was just advertising for people to play with?

RE: Yes, and I said, "This is somebody I have got to have." It was all in German. I had no idea what the ad said. I really didn't research what the ad said, but there was this ad with Christian in it showing this pretty butt and... I think he was looking over his shoulder. I didn't know how we were going to find him. We were going to have to get an interpreter to see if we could track him down. There wasn't a phone number, you had to write a letter. Anyway, we were working in London, shooting the London segment, and we had this guy as our still photographer, David. I think we found him through Jim Stewart of Fetters. I was still carrying on about this picture of the German boy's butt, and David wanted to see it. He looked and said, "I know him. I took that picture. He comes here all the time. He's a good friend." Of course I said, "Get me this man." David got on the phone, and I had Christian. That's how I got Christian: all my moaning and groaning, and having the stars working right or whatever... putting me together with David who knew Christian. So Christian was a great asset to the European shoot, as you know.

And I care so much for him. As you know, we flew him to the United States, and had a lot of other people were wanting to use him, but Christian was very loyal. He said to me, "I would not do that to you. I would not do that for him." And these other jobs were possible money in his pocket, but he would not do it out of loyalty to us. Now, you have to respect that a lot, Joseph. Things like that mean a lot to me.

So when I went back for the second shoot, I wanted to use Christian again. Of course, I talked to him through an interrupter. I could never speak German, and he wasn't that good with English. I told him I really wanted to use him, and he said I'd have to pay him ten times what we paid before. I told the interpreter, “I'm sorry, but I really can't afford to pay Christian ten times what we paid before, and it's going to be a very sad shame that we come over here to shoot these other films, and he's not going to be a part of it." And Christian said, "You don't know when I'm kidding, Roger. What's wrong with you? I'm kidding, I'm kidding." He was so cute. So everything worked out fine and Christian did Knast.

RE: Christian was certainly easy to work with, just a treat, and then, you know, we were friends and family and all that stuff. But the kid that worked with him, Michael, became a difficult proposition, only because Michael was hooked up with some hairdresser that was ready to ruin everything. Michael was dying to do this film, and he was a sweet, lovely, dear man... with this hairdresser out to put the kibosh on it all. He was going to call the police, have the shoot raided. Anyway, I said, "Terry, deal with this hairdresser. I don't want to know what's happening. You deal with it." And Terry dealt with it, and we had no more problems. I had enough to worry about without some crazy hairdresser having me arrested in Germany. So that got solved, thanks to my friend Terry. I don't know what Terry did, sent the German Mafia after him or what-the-fuck, but I never had a problem with it afterward.

In Dusseldorf, where we did Fit To Be Tied, we had an interesting situation. We went down to this bar - that's where we got a lot of our people, in bars - and there was this hot bartender, a really hunky guy that I wanted to use. So, finally, we talked him into it. He really wanted to do the film. I must say that Terry was wonderful about this. Before we even arrived, he had set up things with people over there. He had three or four actors already hired before we got there, but I wanted this guy. Of course, Terry talked him into it. He explained to Terry that he had a lover. You know, we would really have to be careful... as long as we were not showing the film in Germany... so on and so forth. So fine, we start shooting the next day, and shoot with him. He was in one of the first scenes we did, and he was giving us a wonderful performance. We were almost through, and my actors for the second scene started coming in, and - one of them is his lover. Yes, an actor who walked in for the second scene was his lover. It was mind-boggling for the two of them. It was unbelievable, but we finally got it. The lover did the second scene. He was the one that was in the cage. It was just one of those things that happen on a shoot.

RE: Then when we were in Amsterdam, of course Rob of Amsterdam was very instrumental in helping us and couldn't do enough for us, introducing us to people, and letting us use his facility, and...

JWB: This was after Rob himself was gone, though, right?

RE: Rob and Dai [his lover] were both there, but Dai was not well at the time, and Rob talked to us about how they'd set the date [for Dai's suicide] and so forth, which turned Terry on. That is why he wanted to become a citizen of Amsterdam, so he can be euthanized or whatever. But Rob was so helpful, so wonderful, even though Dai was very sick at the time. We went to the hospital to see Dai. He couldn't have been better to us. Then, while we were talking to Rob in his store, talking to him about what I wanted to do, what I could use and so forth... well, we were downstairs, and this guy kept following us around; everywhere we'd go, this guy would be hovering around us. Well, pretty soon my camera man came over to me and said, "Roger, this guy wants to be in your film." I said, "Oh, well, I'll be happy to talk to him." I talked to him for a couple minutes, told him we hadn't set everything up yet, asked for his number so I could him when I was able to give him the date, place, and time where we could use him. And he said, "Fine, fine. I really want to do this." I asked if he understood what this film would be, real SM and all. "Yeah," he said, "whatever you want."

Later, I called him and his wife answered. She said he wasn't in. I said I'd call back, and she asked if I was with the film company from the United States. I said I was. And she said, "Oh, my husband wants to do your film, anything you want him to do. He'll do anything you want. He's dying to do your film. You just tell me when you need him and he'll be there. I told her when I needed him, and he was there. I made damn sure he sucked dick and did it all. And he did it willingly and happily. These interesting things just happen when you're shooting.

You know, besides these SM films, I've shot what we call vanilla films too. One that comes to mind that was kind of interesting is Fade In, where I put Jon King in a spider web and all this shit. While I was shooting this one scene, with this very young good-looking kid... he looked like one of those wonderful Iowa farm boys with this slim body, but he was all muscle, every part of his body was muscle. He had this beautiful alabaster skin and was just a cute, cute kid with an ass to die for. And I had this big burly type guy that was fucking him, 'cause this wasn't an SM film. You know, the big guy was doing all the fucking, We had this kid just spread out and the guy was going at it. I'm sitting at the monitor, and we're on a close-up of this big guy pounding the hell out of the kid's butt, pounding him hard, which was so wonderful. All of a sudden, I hear snoring. I turned around and the kid is sound asleep and snoring. I got up, went over and tapped him on the shoulder and said "I've got to get a little more reaction out of you." I couldn't believe it. I mean he was snoring at the top of his lungs. So these are some of the experiences of a pornographer.

There's another thing I wanted to bring up: the Southern California Drummer Contest. I got to be a part of that, and it was a wonderful experience for me because I got to produce and do some creative work in a live aspect. One of the most memorable and wonderful parts of it for me was Jeff Snyder, who had been in contests all over the country - New Orleans, New York, everywhere - and had always come in second, always the runner-up. He did a fantasy with Sky [Renfro], who took off her shirt and did this whole wonderful thing... It was magic, it was wonderful. They came to me and said that Sky wanted to do this topless, and I said, "Fine, do it anyway she wants. I don't care." Of course, Jeff came in first place. He won Mr. Southern California Drummer and deserved to. He was so thrilled, I can't tell you. He was so happy, so elated... but three weeks later was dead and never got to come to San Francisco [for the Mr. Drummer finals]. I think it meant so much to him to have won, and everybody was so all over him because the fantasy was just so great. I was a part of this thing that meant so much to this kid just before he died. That, to me, was a nice part of my life. I was so happy to be a part of that.

Anyway, Joseph, those are the things that I kind of thought about and wanted to mention.

JWB: I have a few more questions I think people would like to hear you answer. Okay?

RE: Absolutely.

JWB: Before you got into making porn, I assume you were doing something at NBC that was related to making film, like directing or something like that. If not, how did anyone get the idea of you doing an SM film?

RE: I started working in the wardrobe department at NBC twenty-five years ago or more. I was working in wardrobe and I was kind of a pushy motherfucker at the time, just as I am today. I started telling the production office they shouldn't be shooting this here, they should shoot it there, otherwise you're going to have to wait for these... You've scheduled this all wrong, do it this way. So they ended up asking me to be a production manager and the director of the show; that was The Dean Martin Show. The director of the show was a really scary tyrant. He was also an incredible genius, a genius director, and just being around him really taught me so much. I learned daily from him: directing, editing, how to handle stars, etc. And George [the friend who talked Roger into making Born to Raise Hell] knew what I was learning. I had talked to him about it, and that's why he pushed me into it. He said he knew I could do it.

JWB: He was right, absolutely right. It's a long way from Born to Raise Hell to the beginning of the European videos. Obviously, you did a lot of older films and videos in that time, and some of it must have been satisfying. Still, if I were in your shoes, I would have been sort of hungry all that time, waiting for this next big beast, the next SM hit.

RE: Oh no, I did like Fade In and Fade Out, and Men of the Midway, which was a fun film to do. Tim Kramer was in that, and he was in Gayracula and in New Zealand Under Covers - a wonderful kid to work with. He was originally a Falcon star - Falcon's the one that really gave him his break - and he was one of the ones that I made [Names Project] quilt panels for. I mean, I really enjoyed working with people like that. It was in that period that I made Chain Reactions, too. That one was bought by HIS, and they edited it because they panicked; they thought they were going to get in trouble for what I did. But, yes, I did a lot of films in between.

JWB: Sounds like you were just as satisfied by the vanilla films as the SM ones.

RE: Yes. Everything I did, Joseph, I tried to do as a creative thing. For me, any film that I've ever done is... well, it's not erotic for me. It's not a turn-on or anything like that, as you well know, having done videos yourself. There's nothing erotic about it. Everybody says, "Oh god, I'd love to do that. It's so erotic." But it's not. Your mind is working a thousand miles a minute trying to make sure you'll be able to edit this tape, checking that you've got all the shots you need. And you've got people coming to you from here, there, and yon with problems. There's nothing erotic about it.

JWB: No, a shoot is ruined if too many people on the set are thinking it's sexy.

RE: Well, I keep my set as minimal as possible. I mean, there are absolutely no guests on the set. There is no way a performer can perform with guests. I try to keep as few people on the set as possible. I don't even allow a make-up man on the set. When I need a make-up man, he's called in, but he's not allowed to stay on the set. I have even decided I want to shoot without a still photographer. Instead, I'll have the photographer come in, and we'll pose in positions for him before the shoot. I'll do it again after we shoot the scene if I need to, but it costs a day and a half of work to take all the fucking camera clicks out of the picture, and that's a lot of money. Anyway, I'll tell you, Joseph, nine times out of ten, most of the pictures taken during a shoot aren't used, and I can pose pictures that will be used. We're better off to pose it. So that's my feeling. I've never done that before, but that's how I would like to work.

JWB: When did you finish shooting the last of the European SM scenes? I know the last one - Loose Ends of the Rope - was just released.

RE: It's been about four or five years since we shot that. It was lying around in the can for that long.

JWB: And you haven't shot anything since?

RE: No, there's nothing in the can. It's all done. Everything is done, over, finished.

JWB: Does that get you crazy, not shooting?

RE: It does and it doesn't. Terry keeps saying we've got to do this again, we've got to make some more product. He is so incredibly tied up with the AIDS services work that he's doing, that I don't know how he could make time to shoot more films. He can't even take time to have lunch with me, so I don't know how the hell he thinks he's going to have the time to shoot a film. You know what I'm saying. He's so busy that I don't see how he can be a part of any more filming, and that breaks my heart because he's been such a integral part of this whole thing for me. As I told you before, he's important to this work, with all his chutzpah and shit. He's the best at what he does, he's absolutely the best.

JWB: I'm still wondering about a question I asked you before you even came in for this interview: Where does the vision or genius or whatever it is come from? For me, the difference between a Roger Earl SM film and most of the stuff that's supposed to be SM is a kind of vision that gets off of the screen and into the viewer's groin.

RE: I don't know. I can't answer that. All I can do is just tell you the way I work. I get the guys together and tell them I do not intend to interfere with them unless they get in trouble, or I need something from them so I can get a shot, or if they' re going someplace that is worthless to me. I tell them I want them to follow their own feelings and do their own thing. Then, if I feel that they are getting too heavy, going too light, too this or that, I will stop them. But, other than that, I just tell them to get into each other and pay no attention to any of the other people on the set. “Just forget that we're here,” I say, “and give me a scene between you two hot guys.” Now, I want them to realize I'm putting this on film, that this is forever, so therefore, they should go as far as they can, understanding they'll never have to do this again. I tell the performers, "I mean, it's not like you're home playing with some guy and tomorrow you may be out playing with somebody else. Beat the shit out of his ass so it's bright red. He'll have two, three weeks to heal up before he goes again. Just go as far as you can go, because this is forever." And I usually get good performances out of the guys that way. I have had to stop people for one reason or the other and say, "Well, this really isn't working, guys. Now, let's talk about it. Let me give you some suggestions and see what you think..." That's the way I work with them. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

I don't take my eyes off the monitor all the time I'm shooting, because I'm editing in my mind as I shoot. I'm picturing the whole film and always checking whether it's going to have that kind of electricity, that kind of going-to-the-groin thing. I mean, it's got to get me going, looking in that monitor and picturing my editing; otherwise, it ain't working and that's when I stop it and try to figure out what's wrong. So I don't call it genius. It's just a feeling that I have. It's just a feel that I seem to have with it. I like SM. I like pornography. I like nudity. I like all of these things. And I do not like to watch a film where the guys don't strip down naked. I want to see nudity. I love nudity. I love the human body. These things are very important. I want to see that asshole spread wide. I think an asshole is a beautiful thing. I want to get down there and kiss it. I try to think... because I'm such a connoisseur of porn, I try to watch every film that I can. I waste so much time watching porno films and I try to use all of this as an education for myself. What are the hot things that people are doing? My god, look what he did there! That was dynamite! These are the things that I try to keep in mind, things that make my blood churn.

JWB: Apart from your own, what are the great porn films?

RE: I think many films, not all films, but many films have little pieces of genius and little pieces of magic in them. I can't say that the magic or genius in any film - including my own - extends through the entire film.

JWB: A couple of yours stay magical for me throughout.

RE: Not in my mind. But that's wonderful. I'm glad to hear it.

JWB: For me, the genius is ever-present in Born To Raise Hell and Marks of Pleasure, end to end in both of them. And my all-time favorite scene is the slapping scene in Marks of Pleasure.

RE: I love both of them, myself, I really do. I think that there are so many films that have that little spot·of genius, that little spot of magic. That's what I call it. It's absolute magic that makes the blood boil, and it's heaven, but it's hard... To me, it's really impossible to sustain that through a whole film. You know, you get as close as you can, but you can't sustain that through an entire film. I agree with you that the slapping scene is really the best piece of Marks. That's the little bit of magic for me.

JWB: Can you give me Roger Earl in twenty-five words or less?

RE: Small town guy from the Mojave desert, population of thirty-five people. That little town is gone now. A freeway bypassed it and it no longer exists. My mom and dad were like the Grapes of Wrath, the Pikes coming from Arkansas to California. Their car broke down in Ludlow and they never left. My dad ended up buying a garage/motel...

JWB: The whole town, in effect?

RE: It was basically the town. I went to school fifty miles one way and fifty miles back on the school bus. Totally small town, and the only child in the town of thirty-five people. Since I was the only child, I could do no wrong, was spoiled rotten. Absolutely spoiled rotten by everyone in town. I used to carry on with hitchhikers. I could have gotten out in the middle of the street and sucked somebody off, and nobody would have believed it, because I was the kid that could do no wrong. My dad used to lease land out to the Marine Corps for desert maneuvers, and I got thrown off the base because I was "interfering with the Marines.” It was just an interesting, wonderful life.

JWB: Then, was it in your teens that you moved to L.A.?

RE: I moved to San Bernardino, went to a junior college there, then I moved again and went to college in Los Angeles. I graduated with a Bachelor of Professional Arts degree. Then went to work at NBC.

JWB: So you actually went to school with some idea of doing what you ended up doing.

RE: No, I was going to be an interior decorator. I never became an interior decorator. I ended up, right after I got out of school, going to work in television.

JWB: And your two careers started almost simultaneously right there.

RE: Right. When I got out of school, opportunity kind of knocked and fell in my lap, and I took it. And I never became a decorator, which was fine with me.

JWB: I think we're all lucky that you didn't become a decorator; everything you decorated would have been redecorated by now, but the tapes don't change.

This week, we're reprinting Joseph W Bean's illuminating interview with legendary S/M filmmaker Roger Earl from the Oct-Nov 1997 issue of International Leatherman magazine. Earl and his collaborative partner Terry LeGrand were behind many of the most influential classic gay S/M films and videos, including Born to Raise Hell and the Dungeons of Europe and Bound for Europe series.

We're breaking this interview up into installments, so stay tuned in future weeks for its continuation!

Roger Earl: Thinking about this talk, I decided to start by telling you about a time when I was around 25 years old. I went to a party in the Hollywood Hills and, at that party, I met a great looking guy who was about 50 years old, six feet tall, with good body... and before the party was over, we were in the basement, on the cement stairs. I had his pants around his ankles, his shirt off and I was whipping his ass and his shoulders with my belt. It was his first experience ever in this sort of a scene – not mine, but his. He was a carpenter at the National Broadcasting Company and he was the one responsible for getting me a job at NBC. I say that was his first experience. It certainly wasn't his last.

After I joined NBC and was working there, George came to me and said he had been approached by a group of people who wanted to do a heavy S&M film. They wanted him to direct it. (George is the carpenter that I met at the party.) He said the only way he would do it is if I would co-direct with him and work with him on it, and I said, "Sure, why not."

Well, I went to the first meeting. George was supposed to be there. Needless to say, George never showed up at any meetings. George never participated. He dropped out and really didn't want anything to do with it. He wanted me to do it. This is where I met Terry LeGrand. The meeting was with Terry LeGrand and company, to do this heavy SM film. On the way home from the meeting that day, my mind was racing. I was thinking about all this stuff that needed to be done, thinking about the motorcycle men and the tattoos and all, and the tattoo "Born to Raise Hell" came to mind.

Right then and there, I knew, on the freeway, that was going to be the name of the film. They had no title. They had no script. All they had was, "Make us a heavy SM film. OK?" I knew that in order to do this film, I needed this dynamite top, this man that was always in everybody's mind as the Hot Top, and I had no idea where I was going to find him.

RE: Exactly! And, I even considered... there was this guy who was a Colt model, Ledermeister was his name with Colt. I forget his real name, but he hung out at the baths, and I was going to approach him. But he also was not into the scene. He really wasn't quite right. So I was haunting Larry's bar at the time in Los Angeles.

Joseph W. Bean: Larry's, the bar with the famous Full Moon Parties by invitation?

RE: Yes, and, one day when I went in there, there he was. He was the man that I knew would make this film what I wanted it to be. I knew I had to ask him to be a part of it, and can I tell you something: I was scared shitless. I figured he would knock me right through the fucking wall if l even approached him. I stood there on one foot, and my stomach turned and, finally, I said, “Hey, go for it, if he knocks you on your ass, he knocks you on your ass and we're done, we're finished.” So, I approached this guy, his name was Val Martin – of course, as we all know now, I told him what I wanted to do and he said, “Give me your number. I'll call you tomorrow.” And he did. Val turned out to be one of my dearest and closest friends, one of the sweetest men in the world, and totally made the movie, as we all know.

JWB: He went on to make Drummer and, in a sense, to make, or at least radically change, the whole scene as we now know it.

RE: Without Val there was no movie. He was the key to that whole movie. And, as I said, he became a very dear friend afterward. His was one of the first panels I made for the AIDS Memorial Quilt. I did his name in black with little silver studs, and, at the bottom, I put "A Leatherman and a Gentleman." To me, that really explained Val. He was really a gentleman and a hell of a leatherman. I admired him so much and miss him so much. I really miss Val.

RE: Anyway, that's how Born to Raise Hell all came about and, from that, Terry LeGrand became a business partner and a friend. We were never interested in each other sexually or anything, but we became very dear friends Terry will always be my friend through thick and thin, and hell and high water.

In all the films that I've done with Terry, I will say that all the real production values in these films are Terry's responsibility. I mean, he's responsible for that because he's the one that has the guts to go ask the Queen of England to let us shoot a fuck film in the palace. That's the kind of person Terry is, and that's why we got the great locations, the great people and the rest of it. I mean, had Terry been with me that night when Val was in the bar, Terry would have walked right up to him without any problem. I squirmed and carried on and went through six deaths, but Terry would have walked right up to him. So, Terry is really responsible for Marathon Films having the production values and having some of the great models. The two of us were able to work together so well because he has this wonderful chutzpah that created what I wanted, and every time I said, “Terry I need, I want," Terry would bend over backwards to make sure I got what I needed and wanted. We made a good tape – a very good tape.

There are a couple of things I would like to tell you about. This was during the making of Born To Raise Hell, when we were in the dungeon, and I had a guy tied up to the cross and all...

JWB: Where was that?

RE: That was a place in Hollywood called the House of Dominance, where all the Dominatrixes charged the guys anywhere from $200 to $500 to tie them up and beat their ass. They had lawyers, executives from film studios... everyone. And they were great gals. I really enjoyed them and they were terrific. They wanted to be there when I shot. They said they never allowed anybody to be there when they weren't present, and I said, "Bullshit! You will destroy everything I'm doing. You can't be here. These guys don't work well with women." Anyway, that was all solved, and they were very pleased with what we had done in their facility.

RE: But we were shooting this one scene with Tiger on the cross and tied up, and Val and Bob were whipping the hell out him and all this, and he was screaming bloody murder. I mean just screaming, wide open, screaming bloody murder. I finally just stopped, "Wait, wait," and I asked Tiger, "Are you OK?"

He said, "I'm fine. I was just acting."

I was so pissed off. I went back to Bob and Val and said, "Beat the shit out of that motherfucker. I don't like acting. I want to hear real fuckin' pain." I almost flipped. That's something I have never forgotten.

When we shot that last scene with the two cops out in the woods, I don't remember who I went through to get these two guys. But, anyway, I told them I needed their sizes to go to Western Costume to get the uniforms, and one of the guys said, "You don't need to get a uniform for me. I've got one." So, he showed up in his LAPD uniform, and it turned after I shot the whole thing, that he really was an LAPD – on the reserve unit.

JWB: I heard that from Val later.

RE: I told him I wished he had told me about all of this, and he said, "You wouldn't have used me if I had." I admitted he was right. Anyway, it was in the can, so I just went with it.

RE: Dale... yes, was the name of the guy we used in the opening scene, the guy that sat in the toilet and they pissed in his mouth, and they took him in and beat the shit out of him on the pool table and put the dildo up his ass. They really worked the kid over pretty roughly, and I was very pleased with all that he took, and I thought he was terrific. Then, when we finished that scene, I put my arm around him and said, "Man, you were terrific, you really were." And he asked if that was all. He asked if they weren't going to hurt him any more. "I love pain," he said, "I really was hoping there would be more." I said, "Hey, you want to do more, give me a few minutes." And that's when Val got out the alligator clips and we shot that extra scene, because the kid just hadn't had enough. As long as Val was willing... So, it's funny how these things happen in a shooting.

RE: Also, the kid whose head we shaved, the long-haired guy? What happened was, the first day we shot, I was so tired and so horny, I stopped by Larry's on the way home from the shoot and I met this guy and thought, “Well, I'll take him home, play with him a little bit and then go to bed and get a good night's sleep.” I brought him home, started playing with him, and I said something like, “I'm going to shave this long, fucking hair off." And he said that would be fine, "Go ahead." I went to get my stuff and I asked myself, "Am I fucking crazy? I want to do this on film." And I asked him if he would do it on film, and he said he would. I showed up the next morning with him and Terry said, "You told me that... You were very emphatic that we weren't allowed to bring tricks and friends to the shoot." I told him this wasn't a trick or a friend, this was a new actor. He said we didn't have the money. "Well, we'll have to find it," I said. He said the only way would be to take the money out of my money. I agreed, and that's how he came about.

JWB: Can I ask a couple questions about Born To Raise Hell while we're here? In the '70s, when you made Born, there were sex films sort of in the mainstream, and sex films were being shown in big theaters. It was all pretty different, but how different was it? Did you think, when you were making it, this is has to be a secret, this can't be thought of as part of my career, that kind of stuff?

RE: Absolutely, because it was a porn film... everything about it, I could not have been known as having done this. For years and years, it was very hush-hush that I had anything to do with it, and I actually denied having anything to do with it. Of course, Born to Raise Hell was shown on film and 16mm. It was edited on my dining room table in my apartment.

JWB: Movieola and canvas bag at the end of the table?

RE: Well, it wasn't even a Movieola, it was a reel-to-reel crank-through called the Moviescope, and I cut original. There wasn't enough money to do a work print, so I cut original.

JWB: Who cut the negative? Did you have to do that yourself?

RE: No. The original was...

JWB: Oh, you didn't have any kind of print at all?

RE: Nothing, I cut original, right out of the camera to my table. But I had enough confidence in myself that I could do it. And I said, "I'II do it. Don't worry about it. I know what I'm doing. I know the film. I shot it, I can do it." And I did. It didn't turn out all that bad. I made a couple little mistakes that I could certainly see, but most people don't see them. And it was very interesting.

Another little tidbit about Born To Raise Hell: the cameraman that we used was a cameraman for Jacques Cousteau, a straight man, of course. The action that went on never once bothered him. He never mentioned anything about what we were doing or anything. He just kept going on about, "God these guys have such dirty feet, I keep smelling those dirty feet, I smell dirty socks all the time, all these dirty feet." They're sniffing amyl one after the other. [Ed. Note: At the time, poppers were amyl nitrate in glass ampules, and spent amyl smelled powerfully of dirty socks.]

JWB: How much of a crew did it take to do Born To Raise Hell?

RE: We had a lighting director, a camera man, our still guy, myself, and I had an assistant, and Terry was there of course.

JWB: So, six or seven people?

RE: We had a gofer, too, who was running around getting food for the actors...

JWB: And how does that compare with the crew you needed to do the European shoot?

RE: About the same.

JWB: Really? So things didn't change that much in 20-plus years.

RE: When I started shooting in Europe, I switched to a two-camera shoot.

In the next installment, Roger Earl gets into his later work: the shoots in Europe with the Palm Drive Video photographers, Christian Dreesen, Marks of Pleasure, and more.

By M. Webster

Today, we're flashing back to the late '70s/early '80s for a peek at a much earlier time for Bijou. This was within the era when porn features were still at their cinematic height, playing in theaters in major cities across the U.S. In Chicago, the Bijou Theater & Sex Club (which later expanded into Bijou Video), projected many of the great gay porn classics of the time on its screen. The Bijou Theater was in operation from the earliest days of the hardcore film industry, opening in 1970, until its closing in September of 2015, making it the longest-running gay adult theater in the country. It screened countless movies, keeping the classics in frequent rotation up through its final day in operation.

At Bijou, we have an archive of vintage gay newspapers, including larger publications and smaller regional papers, particularly with a large stash of gay papers local to our home base, Chicago. A number of years ago, we scanned in a stack of vintage issues of Chicago gay newspaper GayLife, where the Bijou Theater frequently ran advertisements for the movies playing, improvements to the theater, live performances by big stars (including Peter Berlin, Richard Locke, Casey Donovan [more on his stage appearances here!], and Lee Ryder), video sales (by the later point of the VHS/Beta home video era), and more.

An August 31, 1979 GayLife interview with Steven Toushin, owner of Bijou Video and the Bijou Theater, gives some insight into the business at the time. Here, journalist Dennis Kouba asks Steven a few questions about the Bijou (before reviewing Tom DeSimone's The Idol, a 1979 Hand in Hand Films classic, which had recently opened at the theater, recommended to the writer as being one of “the best [films] in the genre,” a reputation which it still deservedly holds.)

Following are some excerpts from the interview.

"Mr. Toushin proved to be a relaxed and informative gentleman. Originally from New York, he has been active in Chicago's gay business community for several years, owning and managing several establishments... Mr. Toushin is an admitted film buff, seeing at least two films a week. He is well-versed in the film business and appears to be using his knowledge to provide quality entertainment for the gay community.”

GayLife: Why do you play films for only one week?

Toushin: We cannot afford to play a film for more than one week. We die if we play a film two weeks in a row. Frequently, if a film is popular, we will bring it back for a return engagement. Quite a few of our regular customers actually come to the theater weekly to see the films, and they complain if we play the same film more than one week.

GayLife: Where do you advertise?

Toushin: The Chicago Tribune, Gay Chicago, and GayLife. Actually, we have found that the Chicago Tribune attracts the biggest audience. We discovered that advertising in the Chicago Sun-Times did not bring in more patrons.

GayLife: Do you have have difficulty obtaining new films to exhibit at the Bijou?

Toushin: It is difficult to book good new films every week since the gay film market is limited and supply is scarce. We find it easier to book films from New York, especially from Hand in Hand. [Bijou now owns and distributes the Hand in Hand catalog on DVD/Streaming.] It is much more difficult to book films from California since the suppliers do not understand our situation in Chicago and present us with stiff, unrealistic terms. We simply can't afford to book films for several weeks and certainly not at the terms they constantly demand.

GayLife: What is the average cost of a gay film?

Toushin: Twelve to fifteen thousand dollars. The most expensive film to date was Dune Buddies [a Hand in Hand film directed by studio co-founder Jack Deveau, released in 1978], which ran $30,000. That's too much, since the market is limited.

GayLife: Do you have any future plans for the theater?

Toushin: Yes, next spring we plan to elaborate on the Bijou garden, giving it more of a legitimate garden atmosphere. Beyond that, I'm considering bringing in a video viewer so patrons have a choice of two films.

GayLife: Have you ever considered exhibiting any major commercial film?

Toushin: Yes. Immediately after viewing La Cage Aux Folles (Birds of a Feather) [a 1978 French film from director Édouard Molinaro, adapted into the 1996 Robin Williams/Nathan Lane movie The Birdcage], I contacted the studio – United Artists. I asked about the possibility of running it as a midnight show on weekends. At this point, I have received no answer. Other theater exhibitors in Chicago are considering the same.

GayLife: How seriously do you take the interests and demands of your clientele?

Toushin: I feel there is a legitimate need for a theater of this kind. I have a responsibility to our public to keep the theater clean, comfortable, and attractive. I take my responsibility to the gay community seriously.

The Bijou Theater did indeed wind up playing La Cage Aux Folles, a popular mainstream film of the era with a story focused on gay men, for an extended run the following year (1980). Numerous full-spread ads Bijou placed in issues of GayLife that year feature the French film in the mix with its typical fare of gay porn features. Particularly since the work of Hand in Hand was markedly highlighted during the late '70s/early '80s era at the Bijou, the cinematic, artistic, and narrative quality of gay porn films in rotation at the theater was of a high caliber and would have blended well with this addition of a piece of non-pornographic cinema.

In our scans, we have a couple of GayLife articles and letters to the editor praising the Bijou's decision to feature La Cage Aux Folles on the theater's screen.

GayLife, August 22, 1980 letter to the editor:

“I wish to compliment Steven Toushin, the owner of the Bijou Theater, for making an evening at his establishment enjoyable. Usually, a trip to the Bijou is serious business: serious porno viewing and serious cruising. But last weekend, at midnight, Steve scheduled a screening of La Cage Aux Folles, the Italian/French comedy that has been such a hit the last year or so. For the first time in my memory, the theater was jammed with people having a good time. People were actually watching the movie and enjoying it. People were laughing, smiling, and talking to each other at the end of the film. And best of all, there were all types of people, including people who would never have been seen at the Bijou before. I am told that the Bijou will lose money with each midnight show of La Cage, but I'm sure they'll more than make up for it in good will.”

As mentioned in the 1979 interview with Steven Toushin, Bijou's garden did see improvements by the following year, which is also spotlit in Bijou Theater advertisements of 1980.

Bijou maintained this mixing of various types of movies and materials of gay interest in the late '80s and 1990s through its mail order catalog, the most comprehensive gay porn print catalog of the time. In addition to an extensive listing of available gay porn films on VHS/Beta, the catalog expanded to feature an array of other types of video tapes, including LGBTQ documentaries, documentation of LGBTQ events and competitions (such as Mr. Drummer, International Mr. Leather, the Gay Games), sex educational videos, lesbian porn (particularly a large selection from important early lesbian porn studio Fatale Films), and a number of non-pornographic films of interest to an LGBTQ audience, from those popular in gay culture (George Cukor's 1939 film The Women) to LGBTQ underground, arthouse, and independent films (Donna Deitch's 1985 lesbian classic Desert Hearts, John Waters' 1972 Pink Flamingos, and more).

This spotlight on the Bijou Theater's original publishing date coincided with our 2024 re-release of the classic 1994 Bijou Video production Fulton Street from director Mike Donner, unavailable for decades, and now newly restored and re-released on DVD and Streaming! This narrative gay porn feature was set and shot in Chicago. Its complex storyline thoughtfully incorporates weighty thematic material, romance, and character development - and, of particular interest here, its Chicago locales include an extended cruising/sex sequence filmed in the Bijou Theater, itself!

This Fulton Street scene shows action in a couple of spots in the theater that those who have visited are likely to recognize: the lobby where VHS/Beta sales and, later, DVD sales took place (catch glimpses of tons of box covers of Bijou classics, many of which we still carry) and in the maze of interconnected gloryhole booths on the second floor. (Only fellow Bijou Video production A Winter's Tail, an intense 1984 S/M video from Dave Nesor, also illustrates the Bijou Theater's interior.)

Catch Bijou's Fulton Street, plus peek at the mini-documentary on the Bijou Theater page of our website and these tales of events at the Bijou Theater over the decades for more flashbacks!

By M. Webster

During a recent session of scanning and touching up behind the scenes photos from Jack Deveau's Hot House (1977) from our archive of materials from the great Hand in Hand Films, I felt a lot of enthusiasm to share them with an interested audience. In that spirit, here is a primarily photo-based blog featuring a selection of those images, interspersed with interview excerpts from Hand in Hand crew members pulled from the 2019 book Good Hot Stuff: The Life and Times of Gay Film Pioneer Jack Deveau, a historically valuable peek into the inner workings of one of the foundational studios of '70s/'80s gay porn!

On Hot House:
Classic porn icons Roger and Jack Wrangler star in this comical tale of frustration as two horny men trying to find privacy to have fun in a NYC apartment that is invaded by obnoxious painters, crabby janitors, and neighbors who have lost their keys.

Also starring Jayson MacBride (Catching Up, A Night at the Adonis), David Hunter, Eric Streiff, and Garry Hunt (Ballet Down the Highway, Dune Buddies, Fire Island Fever), and featuring the voice of Tray Christopher (aka legendary fetish video artist Christopher Rage).

Director: Jack Deveau
Writer: Moose 100
Camera: Kees Chapman & Jack Deveau
Sound: Rolf Pardula
Key Grip: Ken Schnetzer
Make-Up: Gene Kelton
Make-Up Assistant: Jim Delegatti
Production Coordinator: Sydney Soons
Editor: Robert Alvarez
Mixer: Kees Chapman
Music Consultant: Bobby
Producer: Jack Deveau

“The big-ticket draw of Hot House was to have been the sex scene between Wrangler and Roger, and the pay-off is there. Back in 1977, these two porn titans knew that the audience expected to be transported nearly to Valhalla when settling in for this section, and both go all out to create what comes off as a genuine physical desire.” - Manifest Reader

“There's a sense of humor and a sense of innocence that resonates from an earlier time.” - Mr. Magazine
 

Frequent Hand in Hand sound mixer Rolf Pardula started with the company with 1975's Ballet Down the Highway and continued to work with them throughout the rest of their productions. He went on to serve as the sound mixer for many independent films including George Romero's Day of the Dead, Larry Cohen's The Stuff, and several Spike Lee productions (School Daze, Malcolm X, Crooklyn, Summer of Sam, and Bamboozled). In Marcus Siedelmann's Good Hot Stuff interview with Pardula, he credits Hand in Hand with helping him to come out.

“When I started working with Bob [Alvarez] and Jack [Deveau] – that was back in the 70s – this was my first introduction into another world, the homosexual world. I had never been exposed to that. I was having relations with women at the time. Bob and Jack, they liked me... They treated me as a part of the family, which was very kind. They had love and care, and they didn't want anything to happen to me. In fact, they protected me, and at the same time allowed me to be on the set, and see these beautiful men having sex with other men. After a few years, I realized I'd been hiding my sexual feelings, and that I really wanted the company of other men. So thanks to Jack and Bob, I was allowed to formulate my personality, who I really was... I didn't have to suppress my feelings or to hide them. Why should I hide my homosexuality if Jack and Bob didn't do that?”

On Jack's style on set: “[Jack] managed it in a very casual style; never something like the set of a Hollywood film. It was always like having a party. He was always comfortable. He never screamed, and he was always a gentleman on the set. He said he wants this and that done, but it was always graciously, and with great respect... That's one of the things Jack Deveau was very well known for.”

Hot House screenwriter Moose 100 had begun as a playwright and was introduced to Jack Deveau and Bob Alvarez through his friend David Earnest, who wrote original scores to many of the studio's early films. Moose 100's writing brought Hand in Hand into its later era, which largely focused on lighter, more comedic works cleverly and affectionately capturing and spoofing NYC gay life.

“Most of the films I've written opened at the Adonis Theater. People went there to cruise. The most unusual thing was that somebody would sit down and watch the movie from the beginning to the end. So the audience saw the films in fragments. Jack and I felt that it was giving us the opportunity to write the movies just like we wanted to, because no one paid that much attention. They were just looking at the sex scenes. They were fantasizing. They were picking up men. That freed us. We felt we were able to experiment. In fact, I used to borrow a print of a new movie, throw a big party, and asked the audience consisting of my straight female friends. They loved them! And they had plenty of hot men to look at.”

Moose 100: "We had a style of working where I would present a first draft. Then we would meet and talk about it, discussing some changes. I used to go home and write [these revisions]... Once we got a shooting script – and this is what I really liked about the process – I was on set all the time in case I was needed. The minute a sex scene starts, you're shooting a documentary. It's what happens in reality, and sometimes, people who act in porn movies got problems, because suddenly there are all these people around, those big hot lights, and they're expected to get erections. Sometimes it doesn't work that way, and things have to change. So having the writer right there can be a helpful thing, or – depending on the people in the cast – sometimes you see one of the actors and you want to sort of customize the role for them. There was one incident during Hot House. They were shooting a sex scene, and right when they'd come to the cumshot, the film suddenly went out of the camera. And they lost it. Immediately, Jack fixed the camera and put in new film, and by that time they were ready to re-shoot the scene – Jack Wrangler also was sexually ready again. I think he was amazingly good at what he was doing. I used to call him The Sexual Professional. You could tell him: 'Jump out of an airplane, jerk off, and come as you land!' (laughing) And he could have done it, because he was totally a pro. In a way that nobody I ever worked with was. He could control his sexuality in a way most people couldn't.”

Robert Alvarez was Jack Deveau's partner in life and in Hand in Hand. They co-founded the studio with Jaap Penraat in 1972 and later co-ran it with Kees Chapman. Bob was the studio's editor, with past experience in experimental and documentary film, and his creativity and skill brought polish and excitement to Hand in Hand's productions.

“[Kees Chapman] came to us actually as the partner of Sydney Soons [aka Mark Woodward]. Sydney came to our office and worked as a production assistant. He also was in Drive, of course, but he was way more interested in the jobs behind the camera, and so he ended up working for us in production. Kees then was working as a waiter downtown. He came in, hung out, and next thing you know, he also was doing work for us [behind the scenes]. At a later point in the game, Kees and Sydney split up... Kees became another partner [in Hand in Hand] because he was very valuable to us. He was a huge help in the later years of Hand in Hand Films' existence. He organized a lot and he also got into camera work. He actually shot some of the stuff in the later films with Jack. He had no specific artistic background; I guess it just came out while working with us. He was very ambitious to learn the different aspects of filmmaking. He was able to work with actors very well, especially after Jack died. More or less, he took over the directing of the actors. We always worked well together.”

Jim Delegatti worked in many different behind-the-scenes roles for Hand in Hand over the years. He initially came to them after seeing their debut film, Left-Handed (1972), with the fantasy of being a performer. They didn't need any at the time, but were looking for crew members. He began as assistant to their make-up artist, Gene Kelton, and served as primary make-up artist on some of their final films. He additionally did set decorating, still photography, acting cameos, and more (“I was still doing this and that. I was learning a lot during the films.”). In his interview with Siedelmann, Delegatti says of Hand in Hand, “We really were a family in many ways” and that, as a small company, everyone helped with everything.

“It was a wonderful time of my life... I always wanted to do it, and I did it. And it was good. I helped a lot to create these films, because in these kind of films you need a certain atmosphere on set; a special mood. And I helped a lot on that too. The actors got their buffet. (laughing)”

“Jack became sick and after he passed I was... he was a big influence in my life. He meant a lot to me. At the time, I needed someone like him to be around. He was there, and so this was a big family loss.”

“I really don't think there was such a thing after Hand in Hand. Jack tried to make something out of it, something different than just a porno film. He was a great cinematographer, and he learned to do all these different things by himself... [Jack] did a lot to improve pornography, and gay cinema. There was a story behind all his films, and there is so much knowledge about the gay community.”

Read more interviews and catch more behind the scenes photos from Hand in Hand Films in Good Hot Stuff: The Life and Times of Gay Film Pioneer Jack Deveau!

In addition to Hot House, Bijou carries the Hand in Hand Films catalog of movies on DVD and Streaming.

For more Bijou Blogs on Hand in Hand Films:
-Interview with Robert Alvarez
-Blog on Jack Deveau & Hand in Hand
-Interview with Tom DeSimone Part 1 & Part 2
-The Backstory of Peter de Rome's The Destroying Angel

By Will Seagers

Hi Folks, Will here. As usual, I have yet another strange title for you! The name of this multi-faceted adventure won't be significant until we get to the end of the blog. Like the house that landed in Oz, this story will go through lots of turbulence before getting there. But, with the help of of my friends, it turned out quite well.

In the summer of 1975 in The Pines on Fire Island, a seed was planted by my beau of the time, Roger. He told me that he was moving to San Francisco in the fall. I was taken aback by this as Roger was a quintessential New Yorker, never having lived anywhere else in his thirty-four years. He was born in the Bronx, lived in the West Village, and was also a teacher in the NYC school system. To me, he seemed happily entrenched in his metro lifestyle. But, San Francisco bound, he was.

After an intense but brief affair, our relationship morphed into a really solid friendship. Soon, the idea (adventure) of moving to San Francisco grew on me, as well. Ultimately, this would be a move that I would make on my own. Even though I had never been there before, I was not daunted. And, it was not the first nor last time I would made that kind of move. But first, a rather eventful year would transpire before getting there.

Denis, my brilliant and zany former roommate from San Juan (Eastern Airlines days) had won a scholarship to Arizona State University and needed a "companion." Truth be told, it was really his parents' idea, as they were scared to death of him living alone and so far from their New Jersey home. Although Denis was quite book smart (Fulbright Scholar and MENSA member), his street smarts were lacking. Not having a formal plan nor date for my move to the West Coast, I agreed to be his chaperone and roommate for this truly hysterical adventure!

His parents gave him a car. After loading it to the hilt, we left NJ on Route 80 for the trek to Tempe, AZ. I only wish that we had a video camera to record our antics en route. I don't think I have ever laughed as much in my life! Between our two unconventional outlooks on life, there was never a dull moment. I do remember nearly running the car off various interstates in fits of laughter on several occasions! We arrived in Tempe and took up lodgings at an apartment complex complete with pool!

He went to school and I went to work as a bartender... something I had never done before. I relied heavily on my appearance to keep these gigs afloat! A bartender I am not! I also had some small legit modeling jobs at a local agency. I did manage to land a cattle call and get a small part in a crowd scene in the Barbra Streisand remake of A Star is Born. I was within arm's reach of Kristopherson - not so much Ms. Streisand!

As Denis finished up his school year, I was contacted by a dear friend, Lou Thomas, of Target Studios. I had done some print work for him in NY and in Arizona. Lou asked me if I would be interested in working for John Whyte at the Boatel in Fire Island Pines. I jumped at the opportunity (as I had nothing planned for after Arizona). So, back across the country I zoomed!

My summer of 1976 at the Boatel deserves and will get its own chapter in my upcoming autobiography. Suffice it to say that it was a vivid and fabulous experience that I repeated again in the summers of 1977 and 1978! But, the most important events to happen during that first summer were meeting Chuck Holmes (of Falcon fame) and becoming "family" with my Boatel co-workers. Chuck Holmes offered me a job at his SF restaurant, Trinity Place, as well as modeling work with his studios. And, my Boatel co-workers all wanted to move to SF at the close of the season on the Island. Synchronicity, eh?

So, Denis popped up again. He requested the pleasure of my joining him on a trip to Mazatlan, Mexico as soon as I finished up with my Fire Island duties. Naturally, I joined him... but not before seeing "Irma" in Huachuga City, AZ. I told him about SF. But, he said it would only be a week at Mazatlan's beautiful beaches. After he picked me up at Tucson airport, he drove me to see "Irma," the tiny trailer where he lived in Huachuga City. BTW, this was the rather hilly and very green section of Arizona where the high speed driving scenes were filmed towards the end of A Star Is Born. More synchronicity?

We left for Mazatlan from Nogales, AZ on an ancient but beautifully preserved train - a la Orient Express! It was mid-October... and guess what? That's the height of Mexico's hurricane season. So, we had no sun for that week! This made me even more anxious to set sail for San Francisco! After getting back to the U.S. and to Tucson Airport, I finally departed for the "City by the Bay" with only the clothes on my back and a small duffel to stow overhead.

Arriving in San Francisco but not knowing the workings of the BART system, I paid the hefty cab fare to my Castro and 19th St. destination. Although I was offered only the floor of one of my co-worker's tiny flat... this was my liaison in SF! I wasn't concerned about my accommodations - I was finally here! After a few hugs and putting away my duffel bag, I ventured out.

As I eased my way down the steep slope of Castro Street towards 18th and Castro (the gay crossroads of the world), I felt like Dorothy swinging open the door to her house that had just crash landed in Oz. Gazing around at all of the men and the "gaiety" that blanketed the area, I could only think: Nope... This Sure Ain't Kansas!

Bio of Will Seagers:

Will Seagers (also credited as Matt Harper), within his multifaceted careers and participation in numerous gay communities across the country in the '70s and '80s and beyond, worked as a print model, film performer, and DJ, just to name a few. He made iconic appearances in releases from Falcon, Hand in Hand, Joe Gage, Target (Bullet), J. Brian, Steve Scott, and more, including in lead roles in major classics like Gage's L.A. Tool & Die (1979) and Scott's Wanted (1980). He brought strong screen presence and exceptional acting to his roles and was scene partners with many fellow legends of classic porn.

Will Seagers, recent photo